Sneaky Powerful - A Podcast Dedicated to Somatic Experiencing®
Sneaky Powerful is a podcast that explores the journey of healing from trauma. Through the perspective of Somatic Experiencing®, a naturalistic modality of trauma healing developed by Dr. Peter Levine, Ali Capurro and her guests explore the process and intricacies of reclaiming vitality. Within these artful conversations there are many threads, and specifically threads of hope, healing, and love.
Sneaky Powerful - A Podcast Dedicated to Somatic Experiencing®
9 - Poverty, Trauma, and Somatic Experiencing® with Claudia Villagra-Rios
In this episode of Sneaky Powerful, Claudia Villagra-Rios shares pieces of her incredible wisdom regarding the connection between poverty and trauma through a Somatic Experiencing® lens. Claudia is an inspiring force highlighted by her fascinating background in engineering and developmental aid. Through this conversation there is much to be gained regarding our shared humanity and the recognition that ultimately, we are all the same.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Sneaky Powerful Podcast, a podcast dedicated to somatic experiencing. Today's interview is with Claudia Belagra Rios, and it is my first interview with an SEP outside of the United States. I truly hope it's the first of many. So before I introduce Claudia, I want to send out a huge appreciation to listeners around the world. I've loved so much hearing where you all are from. So hello to listeners in Nepal, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, and Italy. Thank you so much. All right, so let me introduce Claudia. She's such a beautiful human doing outstanding and significant work in Bolivia. She considers herself a world citizen colored by different nationalities. She was born in Bolivia and during her adolescence lived shortly in the United States. After finishing University in Bolivia, she moved to Germany where she spent 20 years working in developmental aid and during this time she traveled a lot through different countries realizing the importance of trauma and observing a connection to poverty. Seven years ago, Claudia started studying trauma to get a clear understanding of the relationship between poverty and trauma. This experience helped her to nourish her professional interests and also to be more present and more attuned to herself. So in addition to being a somatic experiencing practitioner, she's also a soma embodiment practitioner and she has studied some dynamic attachment repatterning experience or DARE courses. She's learned with Chief Dancing Thunder, the Native American perspective to trauma, and is dedicated to improving her skills in different areas related to trauma and personal development. She loves traveling, silversmithing, and nature. Currently, Claudia lives with her family in a small town in Bolivia, where she works in the field of trauma and organic farming. The focus of Claudia's work is is with sexual violence and poverty. Claudia also helps to facilitate an online resilience connection meeting through Somatic Experiencing International. And she assures me that anyone seeking emotional nourishment and regulation is welcome. Here's the interview with Claudia.
SPEAKER_00:Good morning, Claudia. How are you today? I'm doing well. I'm very excited to share this space with you and have the opportunity to chat a bit.
SPEAKER_01:I am too. I'm feeling that same way. I really love that you're my first, as you put it, abroad interview. And so that feels just really special. And yeah, I'm excited to hear about all of the things that are on your heart today in regards to somatic experiencing. So what comes to mind is we talked in our pre-call about some of the things on your heart. And I want to get there, but I want to know how you even came across somatic experiencing at all. Because you were an engineer. You are an engineer.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. While living in Germany, I met Maggie Klein. You know, at that time, my son, he was five years old, I think. Maggie was offering a class for parents and I decided to enroll the class with Maggie Klein. And I got amazed, amazed with all the things she was teaching us about how to become a resilient parent. And then I talked to her and I asked her if I could enroll more classes that she was offering, even though I was not a therapist or a teacher. I explained to her that I was working in developmental aid at that time. And I used to work with poverty reduction. You know, while working in poverty reduction, I was in charge of monitoring and evaluation. And there was something that we were... I had the feeling we were missing and we couldn't see because we work with communities. And we had two communities, let's say it, with the... Same conditions at the beginning, but while competing the communities after a couple of years, we have been seeing that there was a difference. In one community, there was a successful story, but in the other one, there was no change. So I started to keep this question in mind. What we're missing? Why they have the same conditions, we give them the same aid, let's say it, but their results were different. Okay, I met Maggie and while hearing about resilience and at some point trauma, I said, oh God, that's it. That's it. It's trauma. Then being in this workshop one day, I stayed with Maggie six days. And I asked her if I could learn what she can do. And she said, yeah, you know, I'm planning to retire. It's going to be the last time I'm going to teach in the United States, in Texas. And if you want to come, let me know. But you need to apply. So I prepare my papers and how life is. I got money that I was not expecting. I got time because my boss told me, you have too many hours because I used to work 75%, but I used to travel 16 weeks a year. So he said to me, you know, I was talking with the people in human resources and they say you have too many hours. So we will have to pay you a part of it and a part of it you will have to take breaks. from time to time. So that's the way I came to the United States and learned somatic experiencing with my client. Oh, wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's such a beautiful story. And I really love the way you shared the way life is where you got the finances and the time to do it and these kind of synchronous of external things that came together to support you on that. I love that. Maybe for our listeners and for me, we could talk a little bit about, you said in the pre-call that you got your engineering degree and then an MBA. What's the developmental aid degree part of that? Maybe you could explain that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:As I finished my MBA in Germany, I started to think more about poverty in my country and No, Bolivia is a very beautiful country, very beautiful. You have a lot of geography, very different geography, very beautiful traditions and all these things, but there's a lot of poverty. So when I went to Germany, I was not very conscious about the poverty I used to live because I grew up in a family where I had access to To many things, to education, to travels, to holidays, to all this kind of stuff. But that's not normal in Bolivia. So I had a lot of opportunities. So when I was in Germany, I realized after the MBA, I would like to go deeper in this poverty area. So because there's a lot of poverty, why? And being in Germany, because Germany is a very interesting country. You have, for example, a medical insurance for everybody. It's universal. So you have the possibility, even though you're a student in Germany, to travel around Europe. You have access to art. You have access to culture. So I was wondering, oh, but how... Can we do that? In my country, the people also have these possibilities. And that's how I started doing first a degree in developmental aid. And then I did a degree in developmental aid, but specifically in monitoring and evaluation. So it means... How do we measure the success, the relevance, the efficiency, the efficacy and the sustainability of the projects we're implementing in developmental countries?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that seems like obviously such an important piece to see what's actually effective. I love that. If I heard you correctly, I think you said that in Germany, the contrast showed you the possibilities of what could be for Bolivia.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I really love that possibility. Okay, so maybe actually, what does your life job look like today? What do you do today with the degrees you have?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's very interesting because I do right now mainly somatic experiencing and soma. So two days a week, I work with that. And the rest of the time, I support my family in the organic farming. My goodness, Claudia. That's so cool. Wow. Yeah. And actually, you know, I'm also trying to look other ways to... Because it's very interesting. Even though I'm back in my country, I'm back in Bolivia, the topic of trauma is still not well known here. So it's difficult, and that's my heart desire, let's say, to try to find a way that the people are more trauma-informed. Because what I realized working in developmental aid the last 15 years in Germany is that poverty and trauma, they have a very high correlation. Yes. So where there's poverty, there's trauma. It's an ongoing thing. So the people... If you are born in a poverty family, you will have this the whole time because you're old. I will talk to you with the somatic experience terms. So you're all the time in survival mode. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So, and it's like a loop that you cannot get out.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's exactly right. You're in survival mode and then everyone around you is in survival mode.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It really actually touched me when you said that in Germany, you talked about the medical insurance, but then you also said the art and the culture. And from what I understand and what I've experienced personally, art and culture, those things, I don't know the words I want to use here, fall away or aren't accessible when we're in survival mode.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. They are not only accessible emotionally, but they are also not accessible sometimes financially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
SPEAKER_01:I want to know about organic farming, but that's not what this podcast is about. We'll have to talk about that at a different time. That's so cool. Do you work with the community or the village that you're in?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I work here. It's mainly a pro bono. And they are people that recommend me. They know that I do something. But, you know, it's very interesting because they don't really know what I do, but they... keep coming and they come. And that's the way I'm... I don't have a lot of clients, let's say it, but I have clients and they come because of recommendations. And mainly to do some stabilizations or some medical preparation because some people are... going to have an op and they come just because they are nervous they don't know how to deal with the situation how to leave the children the family the money all the things come together and they just come and let's say it we have a talk and as you know by by talking a bit we can stabilize the nervous system and allow them to have a bit more space Yeah, it's amazing
SPEAKER_01:to me how the stabilization and the talking and the witness, like Peter says, you know, the witness, the empathetic witness, how that can create enough space sometimes for solutions to emerge within the individual. I feel compelled to ask, how do you stay inspired? How do you stay resilient yourself in this? Because this is such a huge... task and I feel touched by the hugeness of it.
SPEAKER_00:I do something every day. I go for a walk to the river. And I think that's the greatest resource I have. No, the other day, my son was asking me, I don't understand. Why do you go every day the same way? It's not worrying. And I was thinking about it and I said, definitely not. You know, the way it's the same, but the conditions around this path are different. You know, it depends on the season. It depends also on the weather. There are so many things and they are every day. I'm very curious because I try to find something new every day on this path. And it's very interesting, the things I keep seeing and popping up to my eyes.
SPEAKER_01:That's so beautiful. I love picturing you walking to the river. And you use the word curiosity, and I think that can be something else that isn't accessible with survival mode and trauma. It's very difficult to be curious.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But, you know, that's interesting what you're saying. And I think I would, at some point, I really don't know how it is, but what I noticed from the work with poverty, different cultures, even though they are in survival models, they have curiosity. Tell me about that. I'd love to hear more. You know, for example, young people, They go here around this part of the village and they look for, I don't know the English name, but they look for like archaeological trips, smaller trips, but they do it. They do it. They go to look for things. And I would say that's it. Curiosity. You know, they are curious to know these things. That's actually really fascinating. And from the past,
SPEAKER_01:these relics from the past. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. And that's the one thing I see. The other thing is also because of the lack of the money, they need to be curious also to try to develop ways how to deal with agriculture and but in a very affordable way. Yeah. And you need to be curious because let's say you see something on TV or you see something from someone that comes and tells you, I, you know, in my country or, you know, here and there, we do it like this. You don't have the money, but maybe you catch the idea and you say, oh, that's very interesting. And you will see that the people will take apart a bicycle and And they will put things together to try, you know, and that's the thing. That's why I tell you, there are a lot of contradictions. So you are living in survival mode, but maybe because part of your survival, it depends on your creativity. You have to have access to it somehow. I think
SPEAKER_01:that's fair because I think that I can think of, survival mode being the fuel. If it's, if you're not in freeze or if you're not for me, if I'm not in fear or flight, if I'm in a little bit of fight, I have access to some fuel to maybe be more creative than, or, or curious. That's an interesting piece. I'll have to think more about that. It made me actually curious about when you were talking about two communities and you're measuring the, you know, kind of why one community is successful and you recognize that it's trauma, how different would the two communities, the example communities that you were talking about, how different might they be in regards to the amount of trauma? I
SPEAKER_00:don't know, because it's different. I would say for me, it's difficult to measure that But what I knew from what you said right now, I would say that in one, there was more freeze than in the other one.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. In one, the one I'm recalling right now, it was freeze due to the political situation, a lot of violence. So, you know, these conditions, I think, even though at the moment, the violence was not there anymore, but they have been victims of violence in the years before. So that was something that was still there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, wow. That makes a lot of sense to me.
SPEAKER_00:Another fact that I found very interesting is When I used to work with timelines with them, so you use the timeline just to try to organize a bit the history and the important events. So you sit with a group of people and you just chat. You talk about, let's say, their projects, financial projects or their plans. And what are the most important things that have happened during the last 10 years? And what I was amazed, and I couldn't understand at that moment, sometimes very tragic stuff, it will not show in the timeline. So there was a collective dissociation of events. Wow. But I couldn't, at the moment, I couldn't say it like this. I couldn't put it like this. Now, while I'm... I'm learning more about trauma. I am finding better the reasons. It's making sense. Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01:I think just learning about somatic experiencing personally and professionally, it's just created this ability to sort of put a puzzle together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:where there were these fragmented pieces and for me somatic experiencing has been this process of okay this piece fits here and i get why and it feels so relieving to have some sort of even though the tragedy and the trauma doesn't go away to understand and make sense of circumstances and consequences yeah so i don't know if this is a good segue or not but I want to talk about your, the resilience connection group that you offer and maybe I would love to hear all about it. Anything you want to say, what it is, what you do and who you are doing it with. Yeah. So
SPEAKER_00:we are three girls right now. So it's Danica Lynch from the United States, California. It's Dilshan Olsen from the Turkai and me. So we're offering once a week a space. That's from the Ukraine task force. It was at the very beginning a thought for first responders to have a place to meet, to get together, to combine, to share experience and to co-regulate together. But with the time, we're just open. We're just offering this space and yeah, We hope that people keep showing and come to visit because it's thinking about these days about Ovalde in Texas. My heart was there, you know, it was, and I thought, wow, we need more of these spaces, you know, it's for free. You can come just, Give it a look just to bring what you're bringing there. Maybe you're overwhelmed from what is happening in Texas or you're overwhelmed what's happening in some other countries or you're overwhelmed because of the war in the Ukraine. It doesn't matter. The thing is just to have a space to share these things and to co-regulate together. Most of the people that come are SEPs, other are SE students or other. They don't know anything about trauma, but you know, if you know someone is next to you that knows about trauma, it's going to help you to co-regulate much faster. Yeah. And as you said it before, the problems, the circumstances are going to stay there, but at least you're going to have a bit more space to breathe and I don't know, to reorient to other things, to say, oh my God, I'm so thankful I had the opportunity to eat today and homemade empanada.
SPEAKER_01:That sounds delicious. Yeah. Yeah. To just live each moment, moment to moment. And I feel, I don't want to minimize what anyone's going through because I've not lived through war, but Yeah, just community to support that. And the empathetic witness again. Yeah. Like, I see you. I see how hard this is or how painful. And I'm also here with you. Yeah. I'm going to have to come. I didn't understand that anyone could have come. So that's actually really good to hear. Thank you. And that co-regulating. If nothing else, sometimes I find hope in the work that I do. do with my own system to regulate and that if nothing else, I'm walking into the world more embodied, as regulated as I can be that day. And yes, when all things feel lost, that feels like a little spark of hope.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, and what I noticed for myself is that when you work with groups, the effect is more catalytical It is not about just you. It's about all of us. And when we co-regulate all together, it's like, wow. I find it amazing.
SPEAKER_01:What would be something for fun? What would be something that you would do if you were going to work with me and we were going to co-regulate together? What are some of the techniques, concepts that you use from SC or your favorite ones?
SPEAKER_00:I'm a student from Maggie. So just mirroring, for example, or to share, not to share. I don't know if you know this one is I said something and then you said, as you say something, I feel this and this. And then I resonate with you. And I said, as you share this with me, I feel this and this. And we keep going and going and going and going. Wow. Sometimes you touch spaces. You know, it's kind of crazy. Maggie says, if you have a lover in front of you, get ready because it can be amazing what's going to happen. You have a friend, get also ready because it's got, yeah, it is like this, you know, it's like, like you said, I see you, I hear you, but I'm also sharing what is happening It's happening with me as you shared that. So the bound is going to be underlined. It's going to be stronger. I love, love, love that.
SPEAKER_01:I could think of when you were talking about your walk to the river and that it's the same walk, but you find something new every day. And then when you said that, I have rivers near me and I thought of... Well, actually, I pictured you walking and I connected with some of the rivers near me, but I felt so much more settled and safe just hearing you describe that. Is that how it works?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And as I hear you, one thing I didn't mention, it also depends how I'm going. Because sometimes, you know, it's like, I didn't realize, but since I'm living in Bolivia, I moved here two and a half years after living 20 years in Germany.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I moved directly to this small village because of my parents. And every day I wake up with a feeling in my stomach, like a bit of anxiety, but I couldn't understand what was going on. And sometimes I have the feeling right now that I resonate so much with the circumstances around me that that's, you know, it's like, it's this pull. I really need to do something, but I start doing something for myself. And sometimes I wake up and I wake up happy, but it also depends on how is your state of mind also where you started to walk. And just one feet after the other. And it's also for me like a prayer because it reminds me I cannot change the circumstances. It's one step after the other.
SPEAKER_01:The phrase I've heard Peter, he talked about standing on the shoulders of those that came before him to develop somatic experiencing and i think that is something i really connect to and i can do my part in my time on earth and it's like a relay race like and hand off to the next person i have to take what was handed to me and work with that and then hand off to the next person so that it feels yeah more, not fluid, connected and hopeful. And that what I'm doing is part of something, which is the feeling I get from what you're talking about. I just feel so moved by your work and how big potential connections and support. It just feels really moving. what you're doing
SPEAKER_00:as you know as i hear you talking also the image that comes to my mind is the people that are behind us the ones that gave us something and now we're giving to the next ones yes something yes
SPEAKER_02:yes
SPEAKER_00:yeah so being interconnected somehow yeah that's another topic i love very much in somatic experience is intergenerational trauma.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, me too. It's made a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I actually feel really irritated with my ancestors because I feel this like, come on, Ali, you can do this. And I'm like, you get away. I don't want to do that. Mostly I feel a great affinity and love, but sometimes... I'm annoyed. I kind of, well, anything else you want to say about either of those topics? Because I do also feel curious to know more about, let's see, you. And actually, if you're open to it, any trauma that you've worked through personally that you felt like SE had a huge part of supporting your progress?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Before, I didn't know I was looking. So in German, there's a word that's, it's called, it's a person that looks for. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard that in
SPEAKER_01:the United States. Seeker, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Seeker. I didn't know I was one, but at some point, you know, Because if you hear me talking about poverty, it's a topic that goes really under my skin. Working in developmental aid at some point, I got a burnout. That was before starting with somatic experiencing. And I think another word that you use also, synchronicity. I think these things were preparing me for other things. No? And I recognized there, I was dealing with this. I was kind of two years, let's say it offline. But that brought me also to the understanding that we need to be mindful also with ourselves. Look, as we talked before, one step after the other. You cannot run a marathon alone. without walking well. And maybe my heart desire was, okay, I would like to alleviate, I would like to contribute to alleviate the poverty in the world. But what I was not noticing, it was that maybe there was also emotional poverty in me. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, growing that awareness can help us heal it, right? If we don't know about it, it's hard to heal it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And, and, you know, it took me a lot of time also to understand that my greatest contribution in this topic, in any topic with trauma is being well with myself, be kind to myself, have as much joy as I can during the day. And that that's my contribution to healing. The world, let's say. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I have a group of women that I would, like my little spiritual book club is what I call them. But basically, one of the last times we met, we talked about self-forgiveness and we're kind of in a practice right now of self-forgiveness. And I had no idea how powerful that would be It's set me free and it's allowed things that were outside of my awareness. It's allowed the safety to bring them forth and look at them because I'm not going to beat myself up with shame quite as much as I maybe previously would have. And so as I hear you say that, I think of that joy and the things that keep me from joy, which would be shame or anger at myself or fear. all those negative disappointment, unnecessary and incorrect habits, I would call them. That brought a lot of joy just thinking about that. So what's it like in South Bolivia right now? How's the weather?
SPEAKER_00:Oh,
SPEAKER_01:it's cold.
SPEAKER_00:Like how cold? But maybe I need to tell you a bit more about the geography here. It's a bit of... Arizona, normally it's red like in Arizona, but it has the weather like in South France, so a Mediterranean weather. So you have almost the whole year, it's a very nice place to live. But when we call it the winter, it's like, let's say a couple of weeks that it's cold. And it's maybe 15 degrees Celsius. It's not so cold, really. But we call it cold because we're used
SPEAKER_02:to 30.
SPEAKER_00:And this difference is too big for us. That's why we say cold. And you will see people sometimes with coats. But actually, we don't need the coats. It's just that we have the feeling it's too cold.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, that's funny. So in regards to your organic farming, are you able to do that throughout the whole year?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because of the temperatures. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:How does that support your resiliency, your wellness, your joy? Does it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. I didn't know, but... Food is one of the most important things, let's say, for our bodies. And organic vegetables and fruits, here, it's a normal thing. So I would say that helps a lot with the resiliency from this side. But from the other side, also just to observe. what the plants need, you know, and to give the time that the plants need, because now is that I understand better this, this say that say something, you cannot pull the grass. It's like you want that the grass grows up faster, but you cannot pull it so that the grass grows faster.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't heard that, but totally get
SPEAKER_00:that. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, and, and then I realized that, For me, for my resilience, talking about this burnout and other traumas that I carry with me and all these things, everything has its time. You know, like, for example, one other thing that I learned is that there are times where it's important to talk about the trauma, but there are other times where it's maybe the time just... to keep moving forward and to allow the time to do its magic and then find the space to talk about trauma. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I love the grass saying because that feels to me so much like healing in somatic experiencing. We're watering the healing. Instead of tugging on it, which I think is kind of, maybe it's just a United States kind of capitalist concept, but hurry, get better, heal, pull, tug. And that's not how it works. I tried, I tried. But watering and nurturing the healing. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:and every plant, you will see two plants, they have different times.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. It's just to allow that, to allow the space and the time to do its magic. And I think that helps me a lot when I work with people because sometimes I guess I have the feeling I would like that they reach some point. Sure,
SPEAKER_02:sure.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, I... I need to remind myself it's not about me. It's about them. It's their process. I'm just holding the space for them. And it happens when it has to happen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That feels really kind and really forgiving and really true when I hear you say that. So I'm wondering, so nature sounds like one way you stay inspired. What other ways do you stay inspired? What do you listen to? What do you look
SPEAKER_00:at? What do you do? Wow. I would say I'm very curious. Almost everything. Music, traveling, friends, culture. I don't know. Colors, fabrics.
SPEAKER_01:I've been totally drawn to your talk there. And I bet colors and fabrics. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:You know, this is something very typical from Guatemala. Yeah. And what they told me is that mostly the women, they have few of them. Yeah. Not many of them. And they will do it, especially for this person and where they are weaving these things. They are prayers.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_00:They are messages, you know. And I found that the idea, you know, because I know this was not for me, for sure. But just the idea, you know, that you do this for someone and you put prayers on it and wishes and all these things. I thought, wow, wow. And that's one of the things, you know, I miss the most since I live in Bolivia because I cannot travel. You know, first, it's too expensive from Bolivia to travel somewhere. And second, it's almost everything is crazy because we are two hours from the next city, but this next city doesn't have a main airport. So you have to travel to another place. Wow. For example, when I used to come to visit my family, I was almost 25 hours. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's one thing I miss. But on the other hand, I'm very thankful with Zoom, you know, and with this technology things, because look, we have opportunity to meet each other this way.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. to have a great conversation, a beautiful space, to share this space. So right now, that's the way I'm traveling around the world.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Claudia, me too, because I have a phobia of flying connected to my trauma. So as I work on that, this is how I travel to Bolivia. Yes. Yes, I love that. What is the nearest city? Tarija is called. Okay. And then where would you fly out of? What's the next city?
SPEAKER_00:Santa Cruz. Oh, yeah. And then from Santa Cruz, you go, for example, to Miami or to Panama and then Miami and then somewhere else in the United States.
SPEAKER_01:Right. But while you were in Germany, you traveled quite a bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. 16 weeks a year, I was abroad.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I was... Okay, the common thing in the places I have visited, they were countries with a lot of poverty or misery. So there were the two conditions. So that's why I told you. I think that's something I wanted to see and I wanted to experience. But on the other hand, I think it was too much for me because I was not... encountering the realities i was emerging with the realities
SPEAKER_01:and that of course until we know how to even that you you don't have to merge like that's something that has to be or is learned right to how to yeah and and still though the suffering just that constant assessment and evaluation of suffering It can't be ignored, but it is. It's a lot for your system. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I saw some beautiful places. Yeah. Would you
SPEAKER_01:tell us about one of them or a couple of them?
SPEAKER_00:You know, the place I found I felt more like at home, it was Tanzania. Yeah. You know, it was crazy because when my colleague told me, I would like that you go with me to Tanzania because we will need to evaluate some projects. He says, there are two ways. We can fly from one place to the other or we can drive. But to drive, it will mean like we were going to be two days on the road. But he said, we will have to cross the Serengeti Park. And I said, oh, I want to go. No kidding. Yeah, because that was the main route. Oh, wow. You know, and it was amazing. It was so beautiful. And Tanzania, as I said, I felt like at home because maybe I had more time there. But the people, the way they were. Then I have also great memories in India. I had the opportunity to stay with my son there one month, working also. And it was very interesting in India, for example, because my son was, I think, four years old. And I was the one holding the workshop. And when I came, I saw a very big flyer where there was very big, it was written there, very big, Welcome, Master Valentin, that's the name of my son, and like in a footnote, Mrs. Claudia. And I was like, wow, the culture here is much like mine. Yeah, it was crazy, you know, but it was fun. You know, those are the fun memories, let's say. And through these things, you get to know also the culture. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Would you be willing to tell me a little bit about how that's shaped your heart, experiencing all these different cultures?
SPEAKER_00:For me, at the bottom line is... We're the same, Ali. It doesn't matter where we come from. We laugh and show our teeth when we're happy. We cry when we leave someone close to us. And I think these things are what make us humans. And it doesn't matter if you have money, if you don't have money, if you have problems, if you don't have problems. At the bottom line, we're humans, right?
SPEAKER_01:And you have the lived experience of that. I love it. Oh, I feel so warm. And honestly, I feel really hopeful. I guess it feels to me like you're this warrior down in Bolivia, South Bolivia, and you're doing this amazing stuff. And I feel connected and really inspired and hopeful. So thank you from
SPEAKER_00:my heart. Thank you. Thank you, Ali. Thank you also for inviting me and sharing this space with me.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so glad that you were so willing because sometimes I'll get a response from someone that is more like, I don't have anything to say. And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, you're all so interesting. So I appreciated your willingness. And yeah, depending on how long the show continues, we could revisit, we could have another one of these just to stay connected.
SPEAKER_00:You know, the first time as you invite, I was like this also, ah, but I don't have so much to say. And then I said, when I hear the ones you send me, I said, wow, the good thing is that Ali asked some questions and I have some answers.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you're not on your own. I'm here to hold you and we can go through this together. Absolutely. I love that. Oh, that makes me feel good. Okay. Well, thank you so much. And I look forward to the next time we get to connect.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Ali. Me too. Me too. Thank you. It was a great experience to share with you this space.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for listening to the Sneaky Powerful podcast. It's been so delightful to bring these important and fascinating conversations to you all. If you have the time and are willing, I would love and appreciate a review on the podcast platform that you listen on. It helps to increase visibility in the podcast world, apparently. So that would be lovely. If you want more information about somatic experiencing, of course, it's at traumahealing.org. And my podcast, the Sneaky Powerful podcast is sneakypowerful.com. You can also find me on Instagram at Sneaky Powerful.